Da Flag be not flown
 

Flap flies in Haiti over U.S. flag absence

By Alan Gomez and Oren Dorell - USA Today
Posted : Monday Mar 15, 2010 15:35:11 EDT

The many nations helping Haiti recover from the devastating earthquake that struck there have set up their own military compounds and fly their flags at the entrances.

France's tricolor, Britain's Union Jack and even Croatia's coat of arms flap in the breeze.

But the country whose contributions dwarf the rest of the world's — the United States — has no flag at its main installation near the Port-au-Prince airport.

The lack of the Stars and Stripes does not sit well with some veterans and servicemembers who say the U.S. government should be proud to fly the flag in Haiti, given the amount of money and manpower the U.S. is donating to help the country recover from the Jan. 12 quake.

The Obama administration says flying the flag could give Haiti the wrong idea.

"We are not here as an occupation force, but as an international partner committed to supporting the government of Haiti on the road to recovery," the U.S. government's Haiti Joint Information Center said in response to a query about the flag.

The absence of the American flag bothers former Navy man Arthur Herriford, national president of the Pearl Harbor Survivors Association.

"It's very improper," Herriford said. "Our military people always engage and function under the American colors — always have and always will."

The U.S. flag has flown in Haiti under circumstances that were not always friendly.

In 1915, Marines invaded Haiti to restore stability after several coups. In 1986, President Ronald Reagan pressured dictator Jean-Claude "Baby Doc" Duvalier to renounce his rule and leave. In 1994, President Bill Clinton sent troops to prop up President Jean-Bertrand Aristide. In 2004, President George W. Bush's administration eased Aristide out of office amid a brutal civil war.

France, the former colonizer of the country, has its flag up at its base in Port-au-Prince. The Haiti flag is based on the French flag, turned on its side with the white stripped out.

Army Col. Billy Buckner, spokesman for Joint Task Force-Haiti, a group representing various Obama administration agency heads, said the decision not to fly the American flag was made out of respect as guests of the government of Haiti.

"It is no mystery that U.S. forces are on the ground, and we proudly wear an American flag on our right sleeve," he said.

U.S. Air Force air operations specialists and FAA air-traffic controllers manage air traffic at Haiti's main airport, where millions of dollars in aid from the United States has been arriving for weeks. More than 12,000 U.S. military personnel support relief operations.

"Our commanders are smart and intuitively understand their mission here in Haiti, and clearly the sensitivities that come with supporting the mission," Buckner said.A U.S. flag went up at a temporary consular station set up in the first few days on the airport tarmac, according to Charles Luoma-Overstreet, a State Department spokesman in Haiti.

"Apparently, the prime minister (Jean-Max Bellerive) saw this" and thought it appeared as if the United States were taking over the airport, Luoma-Overstreet said.

He said Bellerive said something to U.S. Ambassador Kenneth Merten, who agreed that flying the flag wasn't a good idea and told the consular officials to take it down.

The decision is not unprecedented, noted Joe Davis, spokesman for the Veterans of Foreign Wars, who says he is not bothered by the flag's absence.

During the Gulf War in 1991, U.S. forces took control of the main airport in Kuwait and briefly flew the American flag over their installation, Davis said, but higher-ups ordered it taken down to avoid an impression that U.S. forces were conquerors.

The missing American colors at Port-au-Prince airport were no problem to Don Hollenbaugh, a former Army Delta Force operator who received the Distinguished Service Cross for actions in Fallujah, Iraq, in 2004.

"Everybody in the world knows the U.S. is there," Hollenbaugh said. "So by not flying the flag, we're not changing anyone's mind about anything."

Unlike the other countries mentioned, the US has done some fucked up things in Haiti and if some US officials would like to help out flagless, I can understand and have no problem with this decision.

If some would rather dish out humanitarian aid wearing T-shirts stating "I am an American and I am helping you" while golden eagles fly overhead with Stars and Stripes trailing from each claw then I gonna have to sit here and wonder why I care if they are upset.


(Counterpoint)
Hey!! You poor savages!!!
This is my flag, I display it proud!!
You don't like then go fuck yourself.
I'm here to help you....not the other way around.

Who needs to fly a flag to feel important on a humaintarian mission. Flags are meant as standards, rallying points on a battlefield, flown to show who has claimed the spot for their own. I for one don't want any liability or responibilty for Haiti...help the sure, but dont put them on our tit. Flying a flag in my senses just means we own it.

Pauldun170 and smileyman, I applaud the simple good sense of your comments.

France "has done some fucked up things in Haiti" too. Their stuff isn't as recent but it did happen. I understand not flying the flag though.

By those standards we should demand that England not fly any flags around here
:lol:

I haven't seen any English military camps set up here where they can do so.:skep:

well the important thing is that they're still willing to take our money and assistance. wouldn't want them to miss out on that.

Did I miss where it said that Haitians were asking that Americans not fly the flag?

Dont think so, they requested we not fly it near an airport or something like that.

Honestly, in all fairness, if everyone else is flying, why not us? We do more to help others than most other countries with never any assistance from anyone else, not to mention its at our own compound. Seriously, to even sya it looks like a "conquering" statement is just silly. People spend way too much time worrying about crap like this when they should be out there in the trenches helping folks out.

NOT flying it goes a long way towards helping rebuild America's international reputation, while simultaneously taking the wind out of the sails of anyone who would criticize the aid efforts of your country. It's one little gesture but if you folks don't obsess over it, then you're thumbing your noses at all the others who ARE flying their flags ;)

Sweetie, nothing will repair our international reputation. Foreign countries will continue to call us names, think ugly things and do mean things to and because of the good ole US of A simply because they can (and Im sure they are jealous as hell, of some things anyway).

It doesnt matter who we help, who we aid, what countries we carry on our shoulders while the rest of the world turns its back. Honestly, theres a good many people who'd like to see us draw in and see what the rest of you could do without our aid (when we are doing things like the Haiti relief, etc), myself included.

Respecting the request is simply a polite gesture that our leaders decided to stick to because they want to be PC and dont want to "offend" anyone. Another point to the wussification of America.

I can see both sides...I think.

We have our military service people there...asking them to NOT serve under our flag doesn't seem right.

Having said that, though...I imagine New Orleans after Katrina...say for example the Mexican army or the French army showed up to assist in the aid distribution/clean up effort....I, for one, would take TERRIBLE offense to see a Mexican or French flag flying ANYWHERE over American soil.

It's a tough call.

This is exactly right. The only difference is, everyone else is flying theirs but we've been asked not to.

I dont really give a darn either way, but arguing on principle is a way to pass my morning. That and no one else played Devils advocate yet. :wink:

Our folks didn't operate under a Canadian flag while aiding after Katrina, though they certainly did have them on their equipment and uniforms.

Canadians don't count....I mean, they're nearly the 51st State in our Union. (I kid, I kid.....just winding you up. :lmao:)

Seriously, George Bush once said during a State of the Union speech that the United States has no finer friend than England....I disagree....the United States has no finer friend than Canada...and that is a FACT.

Choosing to fly or not fly the flag isn't going to make a bit of difference in "helping rebuild America's international reputation". Saying it "goes a long way" is, at best, hyperbole.

I guess we can't just let this go as a common sense thing.
We got get all pissy

I don't think that there are any two nations in the world that are more alike than The United States and Canada, and yet we are not the same. The way that those Vancouver swift water rescue guys got down to NOLA before even most local support people could react was nothing short of amazing.

Americans must wade through the beauracracy (sp?) before being allowed to help anyone here in our very own home country. We are better at getting in the way of ourselves than most countries I would think.

A U.S. flag went up at a temporary consular station set up in the first few days on the airport tarmac, according to Charles Luoma-Overstreet, a State Department spokesman in Haiti.

"Apparently, the prime minister (Jean-Max Bellerive) saw this" and thought it appeared as if the United States were taking over the airport, Luoma-Overstreet said.

seems everyone wants to take verbal shots at Americans while they are holding their hands out for aid. if they really want to make a statement then they should stand the fuck up and say no thanks to all the money and aid. guess that won't be happening though. never seem to see any of the other nations refuse the money.

Ya sent a 50 man crew, 3 days after a slow moving hurricane. How's that amazing?

Your base of operations was fully intact, you had plenty of time to setup and get going.

A lot of local support did mobilize and work without base needs. The news liked to focus on the worst (corrupt and disgusting) areas of new orleans that really never have local organization.

NOLA is a big city, a lot of them acted and responded, but all you hear about is the ninth ward and the really corrupt sections of the city. There was a lot worse damage around the city and in the suburbs of the city that had much worse and didn't get any national guard or swift boat crews and managed to do an awesome job with the situation, so saying most is really going out there.

All I am saying is there is a reason why they kept those people as confined as possible in the convention center.

It was also before ANY of your Federal aid arrived ;)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadia...ricane_Katrina

Most of the people didn't need federal help. Most of the people still didn't receive federal help.

:pat:

I'm glad ya'll volunteered to help, but a lot of areas weren't the complete fail that was the 9th ward.