This isn't about crappy servers not making money, its about good servers getting screwed over by tightwads. No one is arguing that you should tip your server no matter how bad their service was.

This relates to added gratuity, usually for large parties, which is a management effort to stop large parties from taking all their server's time and then fucking them on the tip...which is very common with large parties.

Yes, I've never said anything counter to that.

Again, have you ever done it? At a real place, not TGI Friday's? In the middle of tourist season?

And I said ONE of the hardest jobs, not THE hardest.

Dunno why we're even arguing. Nobody here is trying to say that tips are mandatory.

Welcome to TWFix.

That was the whole point of this thread but unfortunately it was forgotten long ago.

The restaurant in the original post did just that. By agreeing with their decision you agree with a mandatory tipping policy.

Did you really think I come here to agree with people?

Here's a new tactic that's been used by delivery guys around my place for the last couple of years; say that you can't make change. There you are with a $20 bill, for a $12 pizza, and he can't make change.

When I said mandatory I meant as if there was a law requiring tips anyplace, anytime. There isn't and there never should be. What you're talking about is one particular restuarant who must have had prior experience with this bitch, and told her she had to tip. At that point she has a choice, she can leave and go somewhere else that doesn't know what a cheap, argumentative bitch she probably is.

Or she can make a stink about it.

Since she is cheap and argumentative which do you think she'll choose?

I'm all for private businesses enacting whatever policies they deem best for business but it should be fair (or at least APPEAR to be).

Sounds like what a stripper told me years ago when I was dumb enough to pay for a lap dance :lol:

... and dumb enough to not go to a strip joint with a horse-chokingly big wad of singles, wrapped up in a hundred.

Same here. I believe it's earned and if you didn't provide me good service, there won't be a tip.

I do despise tip jars at counters. Taking my order at a register and handing it to me, is not tip-worthy service.

I'll wait.

You're sounding more & more like me all the time :lol:

Last guy had to wait for 10 minutes while I dug up funds close enough to give him a big $1 tip. Usually I would have taken only a couple of bucks back from a $20, on a $12 charge. Among other things, his job is to make change.

Agreed.


Agreed on the last part.

That is his job, not yours.

Don't have change? I'll enjoy my pizza while you run to the nearest corner store and get change. Then you can have my twenty.

I owned my own place for years, and in all that time, there were only two instances where I told someone I wouldn't serve them without mandatory gratuity add tothe check; ussually, if a notorious "non-tipper" showed up, I made the girls draw straws...short straw "lost".

The two folks I made tipping mandatory for were so unpleasant and demanding (they would demand instant service for everything, all the time and expected a server to stand by the table "waiting" for someone to "need" something for the three hours they were there) ; then tell them that the prime rib wasn't rare enough, and that if they wanted a tip, "they'd have to do better next time"......

Then they would tell the server they needed to see the manager, and complain about portion sizes, lack of service, that theyhad to wait to get more water......expecting me to comp the check. Did it once or twice when they first started coming then realized we were NEVER going to see any money from these people. One came in on a Friday night with a large group18-20 ppl, no reservation, natch, and they bitched because they were going to have to wait an hour...(40 seat dining room, used to do 4 "turns" on a Friday night.

I finally told them that if they wanted private service, that they would have to pay that servers for the whole shift, as that person would lose out on 6-8 (between $150-$200) tables during the busy part of the dinner period.
Both times they were "shocked" that I would suggest such a thing, and how dare I!

Imagine that...we actually wanted to get paid.............

How many times would you have to send him on his way without buying that pizza before he catches on?

the first time it happened I'd be ordering from a different pizza place. So just one.

Imagine somebody wanting to make 150-200 under the table and then complaining because one table didn't give them 5 bucks. You're really not helping your argument.

debit card. Everytime

Stop being such a stingy fuck. 5 bucks a person x 4-5 people is 20-25 bucks. You would be alright for working for free one time out of the night?

I don't care who's fault it is. :idk: He could have been raped and in a car accident, that is HIS problem. Not mine. If he cannot get that pizza here quickly, then he did nothing to deserve a tip.

You really sound like somebody who's never worked a hard job in his life, and think that because serving is frustrating it's up there with jobs that require real physical effort and danger. It's not, you take an order, deliver it to the kitchen then when it's cooked carry it back. During that time, you might come by and check on my drink. If that's hard, then can you imagine what kind of tip somebody who breaks a sweat should get?

Actually, the dude who pumps your gas some times has to work in the cold. He probably deserves a tip even more than a server, because he doesn't make you wait and he doesn't get the order wrong...

You dont get it do you? He, like me, does not give a shit. We dont feel sorry for them when they decide to work in an industry that dictates the customer should pay their wages, straight out.

No other business in the world expects this of their clientelle, and im supposed to be fine with this industry forcing it on people?

Pay your goddamn workers, its not the customers job. Give them a check at the end of the week, like every other business.

This isnt even about wether or not I tip. I do. I still think its fucking ridiculous that its expected.

Want to make more money than your hourly wage? GET A BETTER JOB.

at those few places around here that are full service I always tip the dude who has to stand out in a blizzard pumping people's gas.

Lick my balls, when it's my wallet I'll decide what comes out of it. When you're paying, you can feel free to over tip for sub-standard service.


Did I mention tipping is not mandatory? You guys keep ignoring that.

Tipping a pizza delivery guy? No I'd rather go pick the pizza up myself. Who knows what that minimum wage earning, uneducated fucko did to my pizza. I can't guarantee my pizza is safe picking it up myself but I just reduced the number of people who touched my pizza by 50%.

How many of you tax evaders claimed your tips on income tax?

Stop being a stingy fuck! I have drinking to do after work and if you don't give me 20 bucks on a 40 dollar tab I won't be able to afford my fuckin' Jager Bombs.

You are right; trying to speak sense to someone not interested in learning is not helping my case. Point taken.

All this is only relavent to people who care about someone other than themselves.

It's the old "FU, I got mine."

As long as you can stand looking in the mirror, I guess that's all that counts...

Tip: Get the fuck off my lawn, punk.

Oh, are we supposed to be ashamed of ourselves because you were too fucking cheap to pay your servers a decent wage?

Classy fella; for a minute I thought I was talking to a real person..

all of this...never mind...

Nothing left eh? Your, "I deserve it so fuck you" argument is no better than mine. The only difference is, you're actually making that argument. I've never once said I don't tip. You probably won't catch the sentence before this one this time either.

Again, spoken like someone who's never worked at a nice restaurant at a busy period. You don't think any of those people don't sweat? Yeah right.

And yeah, your job could be hard and dangerous (whoopdie-do, that's your choice), but do you have to always maintain control of your attitude at the same time? Do you have to play politics with both the guests and fellow employees? Do you have to multi-task, not just "work hard" on one thing at a time? Do you have to think on your feet to respond to what the guests asks? Do you have to have the type of personality that enables waiters to get big tips?

I never said being a waiter is brain surgery, but it isn't McDonald's either.

Give it up dude, this part of your argument isn't working.

:lol

OK, let's say he gave everyone the same wage, like $20/hr. Where is the incentive for them to give top-notch service anymore?

Being fired from a 20/hr job sounds like good incentive to me.

Homeslice, gtfo, im not going to pretend to agree that servers have it hard. They take orders and serve fucking food. They run around in a clean environment, most times, fucking up even the simplest of tasks.

Dont ever put 'hard work' and 'serving food' in the same sentence and expect the general public to take you serious. Like Tmall said, you probably never had a hard job in your life, so its easy for you to pretend theres something special about it..

Come up here. We'll get you a chainsaw, and throw you in the woods cutting pulp for 7$ a chord for a jobber in the sweltering heat of summer. Then do two things. 1. Tell me whats harder. 2. Go ask your boss for a tip..

Ya, sounds like motivation to me.

Really. So, you're the owner there, how are you gonna tell if a waiter gives top-notch service to a table, rather than just OK service? You're busy with your own shit, you're not hovering behind the back of each of your waiters watching everything they do. :rolleyes:

Again, you have no clue. Seriously, grow the fuck up with your "I'm a macho badass because I'm big and do manual labor". :rolleyes:

People are fucking NOTORIOUS for complaining at restuarants, so dont worry, they'll figure it out.

I have no clue?

Out with it dude? Whats so goddamn hard about making sure 5 tables of people get their food and have a full beer? Tell me where the fucking difficulty is in taking notes on a pad and handing them in to a cook? Spit it out. And dont say being on your feet all day.

Dude, what kind of restaurants are you going to? And at what time of day? What day of the year? There's a huge spectrum.

Probably quite a few. He'd just report me as a deadbeat or say that it was a fake order, and keep doing the same to other people. Most people delivering pizza in my area are on the sketchy side.

Well, lay it out in all the colours of the rainbow... Because I see a lot of boo hoo, its hard. But not a lot of why its hard.

In post #134 I described some of that :idk:

Did you claim your tips on income tax 'Slice?

The kind that lumberjacks and people who think that losing a $20/hr job is a threat go to. :lol:

The politics of dealing with customers and other servers are hard?

Business secretaries do both, all day, every day. Do you tip them too?

Never had an owner, or even a manager, that knew what kind of tips I made either, so what's the difference?

Ya, cuz your country hasnt been crying about jobs for the better part of three years now.

That was YEARS ago, dude. I don't wait tables anymore :lol:

But yes, you are supposed to, and yes, I did. How accurately did I do so? I don't remember, but at least I paid some.

But if you're gonna go there, what about day laborers, or babysitters, or kids who mow lawns, or people who sell shit on Ebay, do they pay taxes?

The difference is that you do a better job in hopes of a better tip.

We dont really have 'day laborers', and students dont have to pay tax on earnings in Canada.

I meant from the manager/owner aspect.

What does that have to do with the price of tea in China?

Fewer jobs means less demand for tea.

JC

depends - how much lead is in it?

'slice's point is that the customer tipping variable is a better incentive/management method than the salaried staff chasing around the hourly employees.

Dunno about up there, but in the US most secretaries (or "Admin. Assistants") make at least $40K, which is, what, about $20/hr?

Plus, those of them who do well, might get promoted one day, and make even more. So good performance is rewarded one way or the other. Why shouldn't the same be true for waiters?

\
Hey, im employed by a lead smelter! And china is one of our biggest consumers!

that's cause kids these days have no work ethic.
I believe its cause they know they can't get their ass beat by their old man.
that's the problem in todays world.

You keep skipping exactly the point were making. Those secretaries are paid by their employer, as servers should also be.

So how much are you willing to pay for a Beer, steak, baked potato and salad then?

Well... some of them get "tips"....




Just sayin'

But, all Apoc and I were saying is if you do a shitty job, you just might get a shitty tip because tipping is not mandatory. If it were, as you just said, the quality of service would go down.

So the argument all along has been that if you don't deserve a tip, you shouldn't get it. And it's been very adamantly against because it's a hard job and even if you're not good at it, it should be my responsibility to pay your wages if I agree with it or not.

Well, when I go to Mavericks, I expect to spend about 60$ per person for just that. At Ponderosa, maybe 30-35.

Depends on the quality of the steak and potato.

Ya gotta speak English to me, What's Mavericks and is that your average price? You can get $100 steak dinners all night at Del Frisco's here.

All I'm saying is that if you want the restaurants to pay the servers as much as they make from tips its going to cost you a lot more to eat out. Same thing I said last time we debated this.

I don't recall anyone saying you should tip even if the waitress sucked :idk:

Although I would add, if you're not gonna tip, at least have the balls to tell the waitress or the manager why.

What im saying is, I dont mind paying a lot for food. I do however, mind directly paying for your workers wages.

I'm not sure where the disconnect lies.

I have agreed with you almost 100% on the first half of your posts.

The second half you either go overboard trying to make your point, on a tangent or just ramble incoherently.

Next time you go to Maverick's, have them charge an extra 20% and tell them not to expect a tip. ;)

20% would be stiffing the waitresses, because the girls in that place are really fucking hot.

You miss the parts where I said im an extremely good tipper, and focused on the part where I still believe its wrong to expect your customers to pay your workers.

I'm not a historian, but I'm quite sure restaurant owners weren't the ones who created tipping..........Customers did. And, once that custom grew, restaurant owners knew they could lower their wages down to almost nothing, since customers were going to tip anyway.

You're acting like it was forced, when in reality it was everyday people who decided to tip.

... and service people who decided to make it mandatory.

I didn't miss anything.

The point is that servers wages are directly related to the price of your meal.

If you want them to be paid by the company, expect to pay the company more.

And yes, in the end, the servers suffer.

I'll give you two guesses; What happens to the quality of waitstaff once that happens...

Thats the thing, people did it VOLUNTARILY, not because they felt they were forced to because some asshole owner is too cheap to pay his workers a normal wage.

Its like tip jars at a fast food counter. I think its fucking dispicable. You put my fucking food in a bag and handed to me. Do they really think they deserve extra money for that? Just like bartenders who dont give you your change... I always tip them, but they seem to think they deserve it for twisting the cap off my beer. A good woman should do that without me handing them a 5. :lol:

And after enough people started tipping, everyone did.......Maybe cuz of peer pressure, or whatever, I don't know..........The point is, sooner or later the restaurant owners realized that they didn't need to pay their servers as much.

In most cases I'd agree with you, because those people are getting at least minimum wage, unlike a waiter who only gets like $2.50.

You won't see a major fast food chain with a jar on the counter ----- Only independants. Is it right? Depends if you think the employee did something special that deserves it. :idk: But nobody is going to say anything if you don't put something in the jar.

Do you feel the same way about strip clubs?

you can't seriously be asking that of anyone who isn't working at McDonald's. that is part of every job out there.

I've never seen anyone kicked out of a strip joint for not tipping. The two situations are totally different. Watching the women on stage is totally free, aside from teh cost of your drinks.

You want a private show? You pay for that service.

If hot servers want to take me in back and strip for me, i'd be more than happy to pay for that service if I chose to use it.

Watching the women is free because the club isn't paying them a fair wage.

Most clubs here, the strippers pay to work there.

They work for tips.

How is that totally different?

Well, down there, and up here are different stories. Strippers are paid nightly. The bar I worked at kept 16 working per night. Paid them 125$/night, to work from 6pm, to 2am.

You cant throw money on stage at strip joints anymore up here. Not in this province anyway. (But I think thats because strippers were sick of guys trowing loonies heated with lighters at them)

Every job? How about working at a bookstore? Every time I go into one of those, the employees are sitting on their ass, reading or gossiping.

yep I bet they've never dealt with an angry customer in their life.

Damn...when did homeslice work as a hooters waitress??!?!?!?

Oh ya? I suppose you shop for books at chapters?

\Because when I go to the bookstore I usually frequent, which is small and independantly owned, its 'Hey, how areyou today? Looking for anything specific today, or just browsing? Would you like a coffee (its not starbucks, but its FREE)? Oh look, this is your tenth book, you get 10$ off today! Have a good day sir!'

That one struck me as funny, because I get better service at the bookstore than I do with any restaurant.

Edit: If I want a book thats not in stock, I just call and have them order it, no money down, and pick it up the following tuesday, after 11am.

Yeah, how often is a bookstore customer angry? What is there to be mad about, the store didn't carry their book??

Whatever. To all the naysayers here, if waiting tables isn't hard, and waiters make too much money for what they do, then tell me this.......Why aren't all of your friends looking for those jobs? Easy money is good, right?

i HATE that kind of customer service. 9 times out of 10 if im there i already know what i want and where to find it. If i need help i'll ask, otherwise leave me the fuck alone

Good for you. I know what im looking for too. But I also like knowing they care im satisfied with their service.

Men are hunters. Real men don't ask each other "can I get you anything?" during the hunt. It's gay.